You think the Dual 701 sounds better than an LP12?

What kind of LP12?

The Thorens belt drives can come close to a plain stock older LP12 in need of a new suspension… but a properly maintained and reasonably kitted out LP blows them out of the water: for one thing, the LP12 can be made into an extremely low noise table… specially if you update it to the Karousel.

The Dual is nice, but, just a nice vintage design. The old Thorens have a lot more going for them.. better build, more isolation between the plinth, tonearm, etc… BUT, the LP12 is a living design and like “Grand Pa’s axe” it’s a new design.

So, again, what kind of LP12 did you listen to? Because it seems to me like you are passing a gross generalization.

At that point I got a used Linn LP12. Which I still have, having done upgrades along the way, Lingo, Trampolin, Karousel… a couple of rebuilds and a list of cartridges and what now..

As much as I figure you love your Dual… trust me, if you can get a well priced used LP12/Lingo/Trampolin/Karousel/Ittok table you WILL never look back. Indeed, you will be looking at a good cartridge and a really good preamp.

It will likely affect your vintage reviews, but as a music lover and audiophile you will be in Heaven.

Roy,

Can you email me a photo? I will ask around for you.

Best,

Ian@ecoustics.com

I have the Yamaha YP701 sitting unused for some time. The foam suspension disc’s have collapsed and appear to be disintegrating. Do you have any sources for suitable replacement.

Joe,

I had one of the automatic Duals and it was a nightmare. I now have 3 restored Thorens tables (Vinyl Nirvana) that have been problem free for years. TD-145 MKII, TD-160 Super, and a TD-125 MKII. The Yamaha gets a lot of use in my bedroom system. I replaced the head shell with a new one from Ortofon and have a Grado Opus3 on the arm now. Table is on an isolation platform and I have zero issues with it.

Best,

Ian White

You’re not missing much, Ian!
Not that the 1229 (or 1219, or 1019…) are stinkers compared to the 701. Just, IMHO I can’t see them being any better sounding (as awesome as they sound), & almost certainly are noisier (rumble-wise, & maybe mechanical hum too).

Setting up anti-skating properly is an arcane black art; you need good eyes,good test records, & a decent ear. It’s usually best left to a professional TT setup technician (which I happen to be🧘). I suspect that 0.75-1g VTF with your Shure V15 Type III is too low for clean tracking; Shure (& most other cartridge companies…🙄) liked to lie about that sort of thing for cynical marketing purposes. I like 1.4g for the M97xE, & no less than 1.3g for my V15 Type IV. I’d bring up your VTF to at least that for your Type III!
Another possibility is stylus wear; stylii with over 500hrs. of use show a very noticeable decline in their tracing ability & should be replaced at the first sign of fuzziness in music peaks!
I’d also have a professional inspect the tonearm bearings & make sure that friction is 20 milligrammes or less in both horizontal & vertical planes.
REMEMBER: Audible tracking distortion = PERMANENT LP DAMAGE!
The sooner you get to the bottom of your tracking troubles, the less FURTHER & permanent damage you’ll do to your (precious?) LP’s!

A few comments:
1) Replacing the power cord will NOT result in any audible difference. This coming from a “High-End” Audio tweako nutcase!
2) Darn tootin’ you should replace your crummy old RCA interconnect cables with something alot better. The problem is though, that you have to shop carefully to get an appropriate type specifically for phono use. And many of those wires will cost you multiples of what you paid for your 50yr. well-used turntables!
I recommend cables made with Teflon insulation inside & out, which usually means that the wire is either pure silver (!) or silver-plated(good enough!).
The main thing is that the cable needs to be “low capacitance” if you’re using a MM (“Magnetic”) type phono cartridge. Most fancy “High End” cables, whilst sounding great, are about 60pf/ft. Anything much over 200-250pf (total) will cause audible treble loss. 1 metre cuts it fine, & usually that’s too short for most of us; I like to keep it no longer than 5ft. myself. 60×5=300pf…too much! I keep expenses way down by using a MIL-SPEC wire called RG316B/U, which is only 30pf/ft. You can find short lengths cheap on eBay, should cost less than $50 for 10-50ft.!
3) All those crazy Germans have a silver fetish, which is a very BAD material once it gets old enough to start tarnishing (about a month!). After 50yrs.x 12 months, that 600x awful!!! I therefore HIGHLY recommend that you replace the RCA jacks in the turntable to nickel-plated ones (gold looks pretty but sounds & works IDENTICAL). You will also note that the cartridge pin sockets in the “headshell” are also made from silver, & are a mottled black & grey colour. YEEEEECH! These also need to be replaced with nickel or gold connectors. HUGE sonic improvements if you do these things!

No,there are other problems with automatic turntables like the Dual (and the Bang & Olufsen radial trackers i.e. 1602,1700). Two main things:
1) The tonearm is dragging along a metal rod that slides through guides that trip the lift & return mechanism(s). They add substantial drag, especially if your cartridge has a low VTF: 2.5g or less. Tracking ability is noticeably degraded & there’s audible distortion, which often isn’t noticed with (ahem!) mediocre low-resolution systems such as I suspect most of you own. Certainly the improvement will be heard when the mechanism is disabled properly, as if you upgraded to a substantially better cartridge!
2) All those pieces that are required to do the litany of little operations that constitute full and/or auto-return operation usually number around TWO DOZEN metal & plastic bits. They’re not secured very strongly,in order to keep frictional forces to a minimum.
Again, removing all this rattling KRAP substantially “cleans up” the sound of the turntable. Here the sonic improvement is even more dramatic in a “before” & “after” comparison.
Bear in mind that a turntable acts as a transducer; not just your cartridge! And with outputs of less than 1 millivolt coming out of MM cartridges & less than 100 MICROvolts from MC cartridges during typical music passages, it’s no wonder that the smallest things get so greatly magnified when you listen.